Red and Blue Economies
I have long puzzled at how conservatives can effectively govern if they think that fundamentally government is the problem. Apparently, there is now a lot of empirical evidence that the economy anyway, is better off in Democratic hands. Kevin Drum has the goods.
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Empirical evidence?
Expat: you must be joking if you think that chart that Kevin shows is "empirical evidence". That is one of the most obtuse "economic studies" I have ever seen. There is absolutely zero statistical analysis done here. No mention of correlation.
While Republicans have not done great at many points regarding the economy, it is a farce to suggest that Democrats even understand economics. Virtually every Democratic economic position belies an ignorance of basic economics.
My hope is for the parties to split power and thus have gridlock. Congressional gridlock is a recipe for a great economy.
I'm With Will
I'm no friend of the free market types, but Will is right--this study is a little thin on the meat. Additionally (and this is pointed out in the comments to the Drum post), economic policy changes are slow growing seeds. I could read the chart and conclude that Republican policies right the ship after failed Democratic policies. Also, the graphic could be more instructive if perhaps the color of the Congress was included, since the president (Bush excepted) often does little without them.
Let me additionally follow
Let me additionally follow up by saying that no matter which party is in control of the presidency or Congress, they are inevitably a drag upon the economy. About the only thing that the federal government can do to positively impact the economy is to lessen government regulation.
Taking a look at recessions over the past hundred years, it is generally the case that federal government action exacerbates the problem and stretches out the recession.
Lag Time is one issue. What
Lag Time is one issue.
What the charts don't take into account is the lag time of economic policies. It takes between 1 and 3 years for economic policies to have their full effect on the economy. Therefore, I democrats often enjoy the fruits of republican economic policies and vise versa.
Nor does the chart take into account who controls Congress. The President ultimately doesn't make economic policy, Congress does.
It also doesn't take into account whether the policies were themselves good. Look at the time during the depression. FDr gets credit for all this job growth, but it is now recognized that his policies did more harm than good and in fact prolonged the Depression. The "job growth" was mostly government programs that made matters worse.
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
Population growth????
It's also completely bogus to put the numbers in terms of "population growth".
First of all, the President has no control over how many babies are born.
Second, babies don't need jobs so I fail to see how this is even relevant as measure.
Sorry, but this chart is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets.
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
Hmmm...
Well, there's not much else to add here. Expat, I'm still fairly new here on GWH, but overall my impression of you is that, while left-leaning in most things, you're reasonable and willing to call a spade a spade. It seems like this post is far too blindly partisan for someone who typically contributes reasoned, well-researched dialogue. I suppose I'm just surprised. What say you to the above critiques?
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Think snow.
Click the links people
Seems that most everyone has gotten caught up in the chart and I'm not sure what to make of it, either. But how about clicking the links in Drum's article? Angry Bear has all the empirical evidence you need. Although, I know that for Will it won't matter. Even if I produced reams of empirical data about the results of policies, if they go against standard economic theory, Will just toss out the evidence. We've run round and round on this with minimum wage, too.
As far as the lag. Drum deals with that in the 3rd sentence! "This performance is remarkably robust and consistent, and holds up even if you lag the analysis by a few years to allow time for economic policies to have an effect.
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I did check the link
Expat: I followed every single link and read every single word. As someone with professional experience in demographics and statistics, the "evidence" from Angry Bear is utterly bogus.
His use of "per capita" as a controlling factor is very flawed. At worst he should have used labor force population between the ages of 18-65. It is also flawed in the assumption that there should be a correlation between population changes and economic growth.
What doesn't matter it that none of the information that Angry Bear provides is "empirical evidence". He would be laughed out of any Econ. 101 course with such an analysis.
Nice Try
Nice try, but the boom-bust cycle can spread across more than one or two administrations. It all depends on what kinds and how many interventions. Murray Rothbard argues that is was the Fed's tampering with the money supply between 1921 and 1929 that led to the Great Depression. Three presidential administrations cover that period.
Does anyone think this analysis really holds up when these kinds of lags are taken into consideration?
Big vs. Limited. Not Red vs. Blue
I have little incentive to defend Republican presidents, but this study doesn't tell us much about which party best serves the country. Both parties have their pet spending agendas, but neither benefit the economy. What we need is less government spending, not different ways to spend more money. This comparison incites partisan passions, but diverts attention away from the relevant comparison: big vs. limited government.
For instance, the biggest negative "red" bar belongs to the Republican Hoover, but Hoover is largely responsible for the New Deal policies that made FDR (in)famous. In turn, FDR gets a couple positive blue bars, but—as with most economic data from this period—the jobs were largely due to military conscription.
The article mentions fortuitous Fed policies, but there are three different ways the government can run up a deficit:
Deficit spending can create a short-run appearance of prosperity, but deficits create an artificial boom that causes an inevitable bust. As has already been noted in the comments, this boom-bust cycle can take many years. Presidents can come and go before the negative effects of their policies come to roost.
In short, this study has no practical value and only a little partisan value.
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On the Lag issue - Drum may
On the Lag issue -
Drum may say that the analysis "holds up even if you lag the analysis by a few years to allow time for economic policies to have an effect.", but he provides zero evidence (that I say anyway) that this statement is true. Nor did I see anything on the Angry Bear website.
Do you really think it was better to live under Carter than Bush, Bush, Reagan (1st term) and Ford? In fact, there's something screwy with those numbers when Carter comes out looking so good. Something smells
The only legitimate point all this makes in my opinion, is that Republicans are bad on the debt issue. But doesn't that go without saying? Republicans tend to borrow and spend while Democrats tend to tax and spend. Might this even be a straw man argument. Most conservatives complain about the growth of the debt, even more than liberals do.
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
Tax and Spend is a Lesser Evil Than Deficits
If it were case that Dems tax and spend and Repubs borrow and spend and that was all there was to it, I would prefer the Dems. Even with a byzantine tax code, entrepreneurs can predict a tax burden and still perform economic calculations. However, with a deficit, it is impossible to predict the market disruptions and entrepreneurship becomes more guesswork and luck than calculation.
However, as we flip back and forth between Repubs and Dems, government spending is ratcheted up. Taxes and deficits grow. The only spending "cuts" we ever hear about are reductions in the rate of increase. One intervention leads to another. Given the current trends, government spending will approach 50% of GDP. This is obscene. It needs to stop.
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